fatshionista: Perfumes? Part Deux - Scents can be Dangerous in a Bad Way.

rosewelsh (

rosewelsh) wrote in

fatshionista,
@ 2008-03-25 14:47:00

Entry tags:

accessories, activism, dealing with rude people, drama, politics

Perfumes? Part Deux - Scents can be Dangerous in a Bad Way.

I skimmed through this thread (Perfumes?) and noticed that no one has said this, but it should be said... with love. :-) There are those of us who are deathly allergic to scent. (My throat closes up and my head clogs up etc.) I can do some fruity smells but not for an extended period of time (like over an hour) or on me. So go easy on it when you wear it, for our sake. :-)

Also, take into consideration the other scents you have put on your body during prep - shampoo, conditioner, hair spray, soap, make-up etc. The mix of those alone can make me woozy but with a perfume they can kill. :-0 :-) Even the scents that permeate your house like Glade Plug Ins, scented candles, popouri or incense can stick to your clothes and body and add to the deadly combo.

I'm a receptionist and I've had to endour people sitting in the reception area who needed to take a bath: either because of BO or because they bathed in their perfum de vie.

Also when you prep think about the scents you are putting on, not just for us weirdos, but for the sake of your own presentation to those who will enjoy your perfume. There is a good chance that they won't smell the actual perfume because the rest of the scents you used will drown it out, mute it or change it altogether into something icky.

Just a little note for thought. :-)

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	dragonflycurls 2008-03-26 07:35 am (local) (link)
	OMG so true. There are some people that just go ABSOLUTELY overboard on the scents. my wife is very sensitive to scents and it is death to be in public sometimes. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:34 am (local) (link)
	Because this has turned into a scent-sensitive bashing party I wanted to thank you for being understanding. Sincerely, Rose (Reply to this)(Parent)

	nobodyhere 2008-03-26 07:35 am (local) (link)
	Thank you for posting this. Perfumes trigger my asthma. Fortunately, my workplace forbids scents that can be detected from arm's length away. There are still a couple people whose perfumes cause me problems, but they're easy enough to avoid. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	diana_molloy 2008-03-26 08:04 am (local) (link)
	That's a really weird policy! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	on_reserve 2008-03-26 08:05 am (local) (link)
	It's actually pretty common in corporate America now. I know lots of places that have it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	diana_molloy 2008-03-26 08:08 am (local) (link)
	Really?! We here, London, don't seem to have adpoted that, een in the city as far as I am aware. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	on_reserve 2008-03-26 08:19 am (local) (link)
	Yeah, I know several major companies (business/finance mostly) and non-profit orgs who have policies like these. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:38 am (local) (link)
	It's actually not all that strange. Smoking was banned in the workplace because of how it affected others. Here's a bit of education for all of you: Multiple Chemical Sensitivity is real - http://www.multiplechemicalsensitivity.org/ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	madeyou_look 2008-03-26 10:43 am (local) (link)
	My company has the same policy. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:35 am (local) (link)
	Because this has turned into a scent-sensitive bashing party I wanted to thank you personally and individually for being understanding. Avoiding them is all I can do. I can't change the world, just bring more awareness into it. Sincerely, Rose (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sherarara 2008-03-26 07:41 am (local) (link)
	Very true, although I'm only really sensitive to the people who load it on. I have to say though, that sometimes regular ol' BO can about kill, too. Moral of the story? Shower, and go easy on the scents :) (Reply to this)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:39 am (local) (link)
	Oh, ya... BO can kill too :-) ;-) At least I wish I were dead :-~ R (Reply to this)(Parent)

kukla_red
2008-03-26 07:44 am (local) (link)

Thank you SO much for posting this. I have asthma and I am very allergic to any kind of strong scent. I almost die on the train in the morning when someone who has drenched herself with half a bottle of Channel No. something or other sits near me. Same goes for guys who think that if a little Brut is good, more MUST be better. Um, not.

And I don't think we are weirdos for expressing this. Health issues of any kind are not something to be ashamed of or apologize for.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

sunrising
2008-03-26 07:57 am (local) (link)

Aside from the obvious health issues/considerations, I take issue with having too smell something that just plain stinks! I don't get folks that think that just because *they* like the way it smells that not everyone will agree with them. What smells like heaven to one person smells like butt to another. If I wear perfume (rare), it's enough for me to smell, not everyone in a 100 foot radius of me.

I literally had a day where I went out into a parking lot and could smell someone's perfume, and it was pretty strong ... and there was no.one.around. *shakes head*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	diana_molloy 2008-03-26 08:06 am (local) (link)
	Perfume though isn't for you to smell. The scent goes away, from your pov because of your nose acclimatising to the smell, within 20m anyway. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rishabree 2008-03-26 08:28 am (local) (link)
	True. I once asked my husband if he thought that my wearing the same perfume everyday since college (a simple natural vanilla oil) was boring. His response was that he hadn't actually smelled it in years, so he didn't care. :) I do try to buy all vanilla or unscented products whenever I can, so that my smells all match up for those that can still smell me. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	definatalie 2008-03-26 08:06 am (local) (link)
	I hardly think that it's fair for anyone to dictate what an acceptable scent is for another person to wear. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:49 am (local) (link)
	That you for understanding one of my points so well. :-) Rose (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:42 am (local) (link)
	Thank you for understanding. As for "weirdo" I always use a depreciating tone when bringing the subject up in order to ease the listeners sensitivities. They think we're weird (as proven in the rest of this thread), so I thought if I said it first it would curb some of the negative responses. Whoopsie me. Rose (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sperose 2008-03-26 07:51 am (local) (link)
	Somehow I fail to see what purpose this has for the community at large? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	icegemini 2008-03-26 08:03 am (local) (link)
	I agree. While I appreciate the sentiment, I think this post would be more appropriate as a comment to the perfume post mentioned. This doesn't have anything much to do with fat fashion or fat politics. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	theoryofgravity 2008-03-26 08:05 am (local) (link)
	Yeah, that's my fault - I meant to deny this post and ask the OP to reply as a comment to the original perfume post, but I got distracted and approved it by mistake. I am an imperfect mod. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	diana_molloy 2008-03-26 08:06 am (local) (link)
	Your words say one thing but your icon implies gleeful malice. ;P (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	theoryofgravity 2008-03-26 08:10 am (local) (link)
	Hahaa, I just realized that. Oh fuck, I can't win today. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	diana_molloy 2008-03-26 08:13 am (local) (link)
	I'm only messing with you! :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sperose 2008-03-26 08:22 am (local) (link)
	Good to know. dances (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 09:10 am (local) (link)
	I'm glad you did. This, apparently, was a conversation that needed to be had one way or another. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	scratch_bc 2008-03-26 09:29 am (local) (link)
	Homers, evil and otherwise, forgive you. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	justuschickens 2008-03-26 07:52 am (local) (link)
	I've never actually seen reports of a death caused by scent allergies. A lot of people seem to believe their allergies could kill them, but many allergies do not have any recorded instances of death resulting. Have deaths actually occurred because of scent allergies? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	Off topic a little? vamcdonnell 2008-03-26 07:56 am (local) (link)
	Also, one isn't just allergic to "any kind of strong scent" there has to be something IN the perfume that bothers you. Sorry, I dress and perfume myself for myself and I won't cover up my fat body for the sake of "disgusted eyes", I certainly won't alter my bathing routine for overly sensitive noses. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Off topic a little? oh_hay_britney 2008-03-26 08:14 am (local) (link)
	This is exactly what I was going to say, except you said it better. So, thanks! ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Off topic a little?

justuschickens
2008-03-26 08:21 am (local) (link)

Agreed. I'm annoyed by this post largely because I used to have a co-worker who had "scent allergies" and made this same broad, sweeping claim, that she was allergic to ANY KIND OF SCENT OMG.

So I wore a perfume I made myself specifically only with a carrier oil and a couple of floral essential oils, and she went fucking nuts and her eyes got all watery and she wanted to talk to HR about it and everything. But guess what? She gardened! She had photos of her gardening in her damn cubicle. If she went nuts from that perfume, she would be utterly unable to deal with the same essential oils being given off by the flowers in her own back yard. She was really embarrassed when I told her very sweetly that I had made the perfume specifically so it wouldn't exacerbate her allergies, and made some excuse that it must have been "some other scent" in the office doing it. Riiiiiight.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Off topic a little? beautyofgrey 2008-03-26 08:28 am (local) (link)
	Admittedly, though, essential oils do come across much stronger than some commercial perfumes, even in a carrier oil. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Off topic a little? rosewelsh 2008-03-26 09:08 am (local) (link)
	http://www.multiplechemicalsensitivity.org/ (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Off topic a little?

justuschickens
2008-03-26 09:17 am (local) (link)

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mcs.html

"Using well-designed double-blind tests, they have demonstrated that "universal reactors" may develop multiple symptoms in response to the testing process without being allergic to any of the individual substances administered. One of their reports describes how they used an environmental chamber to evaluate 20 patients with multiple symptoms attributed to chemical hypersensitivity. These patients believed that they were reactive or hypersensitive to low-level exposure to many chemicals. Some had previously been evaluated and managed by clinical ecologists and diagnosed with "MCS." During nonblinded tests, these patients consistently reported symptoms they had associated with exposure at work, at home, or elsewhere. The environmental chamber enabled the patients to encounter measured amounts of purified air, compressed gasses, and air containing specific chemical concentrations, without knowing which situation was which. None of the patients demonstrated a response pattern implicating the chemicals supposedly responsible for their symptoms. Eighteen reported no symptoms at least once when the suspect chemical was present. Fifteen reported symptoms at least once when the suspect chemical was absent [10]. In other words, patients reacted to their feelings and beliefs about the test, rather than to the substance in question [11]."

SCIENCE!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Off topic even more bookworm04 2008-03-26 10:18 am (local) (link)
	Just chiming in to say thanks for the article, it's interesting. :) It always makes me happy when I get to see scientific articles with OMG SOURCES FROM JOURNALS. Erm, back to your regularly scheduled programming... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: Off topic a little? enchanted_black 2008-03-26 08:24 am (local) (link)
	I was going to say something to that effect then my brain completely melted, so you said for me also. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Off topic a little?

sheyeblaze
2008-03-26 09:54 am (local) (link)

For me, strong scents of *most* (not all) kinds trigger migraines, asthma, or sinus issues depending on the exact scent. It really depends on the person.

For example, I can't be close to people who use Herbal Essences shampoo. It's almost an instant migraine and vomiting.

But, then again, I don't expect people not to wear perfume. I just expect people to have respect about it when it causes a real problem for me. Please note that I work in a cube-farm and can't just close my office door or some-such.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Off topic a little? rosewelsh 2008-03-26 12:29 pm (local) (link)
	Thank you for understanding one of my points. I wish I'd been more articulate in my original one. R (Reply to this)(Parent)

beautyofgrey
2008-03-26 08:44 am (local) (link)

A lot of people seem to believe their allergies could kill them, but many allergies do not have any recorded instances of death resulting.

Allergies can cause anaphylactic shock or severe asthma attacks, which can be deadly. Not that I think scents cause that on the first whiff. I think you'd have to have heavy or prolonged exposure to result in an asthma attack, and most people with allergens/asthma are pretty smart to control their environment to avoid them.

I'm not running around screaming at people to change their lives b/c of my health issues, but I don't think it's fair to make light of a real health problem by saying "I don't think it can kill you, you're over-reacting", especially if you don't understand asthma triggers. Plenty of people have died from asthma attacks. And even if they don't die, being hospitalized for an allergic reaction/asthma attack sucks in and of itself.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	justuschickens 2008-03-26 08:53 am (local) (link)
	Allergies can cause that, yes. But has a scent allergy ever actually caused death? The answer would seem to be no. The risk of anaphylactic shock resulting in death is hugely overblown for most allergies (the big exceptions are insect stings and peanuts). I have asthma. But I make sure to avoid things that trigger it, instead of asking the world to avoid me. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

beautyofgrey
2008-03-26 09:13 am (local) (link)

But I make sure to avoid things that trigger it, instead of asking the world to avoid me.

Well, if you read my reply at all, I actually agree with that. I briefly mentioned anaphylactic shock and then spent the rest of the comment discussing asthma attacks and prolonged exposure. If you have severe asthma or allergies, prolonged exposure to an allergen can cause them to worsen and/or trigger an attack. I have no idea if prolonged exposure to a scent would cause a problem for me or anyone else, but I don't stick around and wait for it to happen.

My point is, you have no idea how severe the OP's asthma or allergies is, and your comments seem to indicate that she is overreacting. Hell, I've been hospitalized more than once for asthma attacks resulting from visiting/staying with friends or family with dogs/cigarette smoke. I didn't die, but the pain and the medical costs and the inability to breathe wasn't pleasant. I don't agree with the OP's assumption that the world should change for her, but I'm not going to belittle her for her experience.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	justuschickens 2008-03-26 09:18 am (local) (link)
	My issue is with the very idea that a generalized scent allergy exists. Srsly. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	beautyofgrey 2008-03-26 09:24 am (local) (link)
	Generalized, likely not. But many scents contain similar ingredients, which could likely lead to the confusion. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	justuschickens 2008-03-26 09:49 am (local) (link)
	The OP is now talking about multiple chemical sensitivity, which is pretty much believed to be crap. So yeah, that is talking about a generalized scent allergy. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	on_reserve 2008-03-26 11:00 am (local) (link)
	Really? I've had asthma since I was 4 and I've never heard of anyone dying from asthma. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	beautyofgrey 2008-03-26 11:34 am (local) (link)
	You must be kidding! I've had it since childhood, and I've always known the risk. Then again, I have a pretty severe case and have been hospitalized a lot. There's plenty of info on it here. I always remember growing up, though, the big thing was Krissy Taylor's death. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	on_reserve 2008-03-26 12:31 pm (local) (link)
	I was hospitalized about six or seven times. I have a pretty severe case that is well maintained with a small cocktail of medicines. I know what my triggers are (exercise, cold air, cigarette smoke) and take care when I'm exposed to one. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

beautyofgrey
2008-03-26 12:40 pm (local) (link)

*nods* Mine has been considerably better controlled since the introduction of Advair onto the market, although it doesn't seem to work as well in the fall. Unfortunately I think I have more environmental triggers, such as pet dander, dust, mold, and certain pollens. I've also found that certain foods can aggravate it (corn and dairy, I have had allergies to those since childhood as well.) I also have terrible eczema and sinus issues. I pretty much have to have allergy shots to keep things under control. I've been tested a few times throughout my life and the list is horribly long. :P

But that's a whole heck of a lot of TMI about me. Sorry.

My understanding, from what I've learned, is that the risk of death is higher the more severe attacks one has over a lifetime, because each attack damages the interior of the lungs, and that adds up over your lifetime. So the preventative medicines they give now, such as corticosteroids, are designed to prevent the severe attacks to minimize that damage (and hopefully reduce the mortality rate).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

beautyofgrey
2008-03-26 12:59 pm (local) (link)

Also, thinking on this more and some of the information that

prettydark provided, the risk of mortality definitely increases given the education and social/economic status of the individual. Which makes sense, given the costs of medications, the fact that some of those medications aren't covered by low income healthcare programs, and the fact that it requires constant management and education (as with any chronic condition, you're better off if you're rich, not a minority, and have insurance). That and the fact that the overuse of quick-acting inhalers, and the long-term use of corticosteriods, can actually aggravate the problem...*sigh*. It's a huge public health issue, and one of the many reasons I went into air pollution prevention. I think it's treated much more aggressively these days (my insurance company sent me a booklet on self-management of asthma), which I would hope helps.

Asthma is a chronic disease characterized by the constriction, narrowing and blockage of airways in the lungs causing breathing difficulty. While asthma affects more than 20 million American children and adults, many people aren't aware of the severity and impact of the disease:

-- 14 million missed days of school for children each year, making asthma the leading cause of school absenteeism
-- 14.5 million missed days of work for adults each year
-- 100 million days of restricted physical activity for children and adults each year
-- 1.8 million emergency room visits annually
-- $14 billion in annual medical expenses and indirect costs
-- Nearly 5,000 asthma-related deaths annually

(source)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	beautyofgrey 2008-03-26 11:35 am (local) (link)
	Also, I looove that icon! Fabulous! (Reply to this)(Parent)

prettydark
2008-03-26 11:59 am (local) (link)

http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/how_serious_asthma_000004_4.htm

About 450,000 American adults are admitted to an emergency room with asthma each year. The number of deaths from asthma increased from about 2,900 in 1908 to a high of 5,667 in 1996. The numbers appear to be declining slightly, and in 2002 about 4,260 people died because of asthma. Death from asthma is still a very uncommon event, considering that an estimated 20 million people in the U.S. have this condition.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	on_reserve 2008-03-26 12:32 pm (local) (link)
	Death from asthma is still a very uncommon event, Bingo! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	prettydark 2008-03-26 12:38 pm (local) (link)
	I've never heard of anyone dying from* asthma.* The number of deaths from asthma increased from about 2,900 in 1908 to a high of 5,667 in 1996. Over five thousand funerals of Americans dead from Asthma in 1996. Now you've heard of a great number of 'anyones'. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	on_reserve 2008-03-26 01:20 pm (local) (link)
	Great number being relative. Those numbers are pretty small. (Reply to this)(Parent)

elegyforanangel
2008-03-26 12:35 pm (local) (link)

i've not known of anyone dying but i did have one experience with a teacher being taken in an ambulance because of this issue. Her stance was that she was allergic to EVERY SINGLE SCENT EVER!!!! well, one day a girl who she was failing (college algebra) sprayed perfume all over the teacher's desk and the second she walked over there and smelled it, she jammed an EPI pen in her leg and called 911. (i admit she was a wretched woman and an awful teacher, but didn't deserve that) I'm pretty sure she was a kooky hypocondriac, but still, scary all the same.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

katie_ah
2008-03-26 07:56 am (local) (link)

This has, exactly what to do with fat fashion or fat politics??

It's a good thing we're on the internet and that I am mid-western enough to generally detest people being in my 'bubble', therefore any scent-sensitive people will not be affected by my shampoo or what have you.

Look. Toughen up. I live in an area where it is common for people to spit, blow snot-rockets and urinate on the street. That affects my health just as much as perfume may affect you. I got over it. Seriously.

I know you're trying to be nice about it and all, but really. This is a little much, expecting the world at large to cater to your sensibilities.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	definatalie 2008-03-26 07:57 am (local) (link)
	Your immune system might actually be stronger for all the germy germingtons flying about! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	scarredonmyarm 2008-03-26 07:59 am (local) (link)
	iawtc (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ruby_woo 2008-03-26 09:00 am (local) (link)
	Ugh, thank you. I can promise not to bathe it in or spray it at my desk, but I'm not going to promise not to wear it. Christ. (Reply to this)(Parent)

poli_gone
2008-03-26 08:00 am (local) (link)

i'm sensitive, too...my allergies are killer, and my asthma isn't doing me any favors! if i have a problem with someone's flowery perfume, then i move myself away from them. some scents are worse than others, of course. the cleaning products aisle at the grocery store triggers my allergies like nothing else.

but you know what, i deal with it. do you really expect this post to make the large number of people who love perfume and wear it daily to stop, just for you? has that ever worked for you? maybe instead of telling other people what to do, you might consider altering what you CAN control.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	on_reserve 2008-03-26 08:03 am (local) (link)
	In the past, with people who wear WAY TOO MUCH, I have asked them if they could wear less. And I am talking about people you can smell 10 feet away, whose perfume lingers in the hallways, elevators, etc. Really excessive. But really excessive anything isn't a good idea usually. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	punkalicia 2008-03-26 09:03 am (local) (link)
	it's the WAY TOO MUCH people that are why they have all the no-scent corp policies now too, b/c (at least in my experience) the people that pour it on? They don't think they wear too much. And get all kinds of offended when you ask them to tone it down. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	bagfish 2008-03-26 10:46 am (local) (link)
	I think that's totally fair enough. I wear scent a lot of the time and I sometimes wonder if I'm pissing other people off with it. I would rather know it's too strong and moderate it than have someone silently cursing me! (Reply to this)(Parent)

beautyofgrey
2008-03-26 08:27 am (local) (link)

IAWTC. I have severe asthma and allergies, and I've been around people whose perfumes flat out give me an asthma attack.

But.... I also have friends with dogs, guinea pigs, bunnies, and birds in their houses, which I am also really sensitive to. Do I expect them to get rid of their pets? Nope!

You pretty much have to learn to control your own exposure. I DO understand your frustration, however. (Yesterday in the mall I passed Macy's and the entrance was so scented I felt like I was drowning...ugh.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:51 am (local) (link)
	Oh, gods yes! The cleaning products isle is a killer. Bleh. I only go there when I have to be there. As for expecting special catering, see my most recent post. That wasn't my point at all. I wish I'd made that a bit more clear. Rose (Reply to this)(Parent)

	negiplease 2008-03-26 08:00 am (local) (link)
	I know the mods approved it, so I guess there must be some connection, but I'll be frank: I don't understand what this has to do with the stated purpose of this community. I guess it's that fat people wear perfume and scented cosmetics, and thus need to be schooled as to their appropriate usage? (Reply to this)(Thread)

	theoryofgravity 2008-03-26 08:07 am (local) (link)
	I was distracted and approved it by mistake. My fuckup. I owns it! (Reply to this)(Parent)

sunrising
2008-03-26 08:09 am (local) (link)

Perfume has as much to do with fashion as makeup. You wouldn't see adds for perfumes in fashion mags if it wasn't part of fashion. It's all part of a personal image and since we (humans) are more dynamic than what we see, our image incorporates smell, voice, body language ... it's all tied together even though it's more subtle than sexy leopard print skirts.

That's my $0.02!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:32 am (local) (link)
	My point exactly, thank you for understanding!!! :-) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	madeyou_look 2008-03-26 10:47 am (local) (link)
	But it's not specifically about fat fashion. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	diana_molloy 2008-03-26 08:12 am (local) (link)
	Actually: http://community.livejournal.com/fatshionista/2630378.html?thread=54596074#t54596074 (Reply to this)(Parent)

on_reserve
2008-03-26 08:01 am (local) (link)

Relevancy?
There's also the fact that many fat people struggle with issues of the "lazy, unwashed, fat person stereotype" and have a hard time dealing with perceived body odor (not saying that fat people are more smelly but just that fat people can sometimes be more concerned/worried about it since mainstream America would lead you to believe all fat people smell gross and some of that can get internalized).

In general, I agree with you on uber artificial scents. I skip that aisle in the grocery store altogether. To me, all of that stuff is nauseating. I used scent/dye-free laundry detergent and dish soap and other cleaners.

However, I do love Lush and frankly I'm not willing to give that up. I try to keep my smell with in the "12-inch zone" as once taught to me by my mother (whatever you put on yourself should be only for you and for anyone welcome to come super close to you, within the 12 inches). If that means some people can't come super close to me, I'm ok with that.

Edited at 2008-03-26 08:04 am (local)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	justuschickens 2008-03-26 08:23 am (local) (link)
	Bingo. You can take my Snowcake perfume when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. Mmm. I'm going to put some on right now. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	feisty_jenn 2008-03-26 09:38 am (local) (link)
	i think this is a really interesting point. i've seen studies where people associate "unwashed" or "unclean" or "smelly" with size....so focusing on questions around perfuming/scent in the fatshion community makes sense. thank you for the thought! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

on_reserve
2008-03-26 10:57 am (local) (link)

It came up at NOLOSE during the no scent policy vs. people who didn't want that policy. There were a few points brought up ...

-- For some fat people, asking them to give up scent 100% is like asking them to give up a security blanket

-- Many products designed for women of color *do not* come in scent-free varieties and demanding scent-free was in effect telling women of color that they couldn't use any product at all. The scent-free policy came off as white people not understanding the needs of anyone not white and how that might balance with the needs of people who are chemically sensitive (who, not exclusively but mostly, were white)

-- There was no way to enforce the policy anyway. It was at best, a suggestion and thus they could never guarantee to truly chemically sensitive people that there would for sure be no scent.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	thatbitchfiona 2008-03-26 12:42 pm (local) (link)
	This is very interesting, thank you for sharing. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	sheyeblaze 2008-03-26 10:01 am (local) (link)
	I think that you've just made the OP's point. Or at least what I read... You are exactly the kind of person that doesn't need that advice. =) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

on_reserve
2008-03-26 11:04 am (local) (link)

I would disagree. My hair smells of my shampoo, my hands smell of my hand lotion. If I take a long bath in a bath laden with bubbles and bath ballistics, my whole body will smell like that. The OP's ideal would be for no one to wear scent ever, she's not asking for that but it would be her ideal.

I like my sense of smell. I like that it works properly and I like enjoying it with products that smell. I am considerate to an extent but there are people in my life who can't come too close to me because they are chemically sensitive. And I just deal with that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	sheyeblaze 2008-03-26 01:38 pm (local) (link)
	Huh... I did not get that form the original post at all. In fact, being a rather scent-sensitive person, myself, I agreed with the original post, because it really seemed geared towards people who over-wear scent. But, I guess we each read the posts through our own eyes and experiences. =) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	leiamanda 2008-03-26 08:01 am (local) (link)
	I never use perfume, I just put on some light lotion if I want to smell nice. I don't like smelling people who walk past me, either, but I don't expect them to change seeing as how I'll probably never walk past that person ever again. (Reply to this)

	cyclothemia 2008-03-26 08:21 am (local) (link)
	You know, in my experience, the scents that kill me are the ones with more of a chemical makeup- the ones that're more perfume oil, like the ones from Black Phoenix Alchemy Labs, are much less eye watering and easier to go light on! (Reply to this)(Thread)

	rustlemybustle 2008-03-26 08:31 am (local) (link)
	Mmm, Black Phoenix Alchemy Labs... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:48 am (local) (link)
	The chemical make up of almost all scents, natural or man-made, is what kicks my butt. I've tried natural oils ... and all that, because I do love sweet smells, but I can't do them on me or anyone else. I was ecstatic when I found out I could do natural versions of fruity and herby smells. I at least can now enjoy that stuff in my shampoo and the like. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	circumlocutory 2008-03-26 08:24 am (local) (link)
	Errrrrrr I'm not giving up my Burberry cologne for anyone, sweet Jesus it smells amazing. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	bukiluki 2008-03-26 09:11 am (local) (link)
	lol IAWTC (Reply to this)(Parent)

rosewelsh
2008-03-26 08:30 am (local) (link)

Why is this relevant to a fashion list? Perfume is part of some, if not most people's fashion statement as shown by the "perfume?" post being accepted by the mods. I thought it would be a good idea to discuss not only the amount one puts on and it's affects on their environment, but also that mixing too many scents together defeats the purpose of why some people wear a particular scent.

Someone who's as sensitive as I am to scent will notice this sort of thing whereas someone wearing all the mixes of scents might not.

Also, as I can see by the acerbic responses to my post that the topic hit a sore spot. I know now that there are people in the world who could care less if what they do affects others in a negative way. For sure there are people who don't want to know that something they love can affect others in a bad way. Why? Because it makes them feel uncomfortable so they lash out at the person who "made them feel" uncomfortable. This too is part of fat politics. When someone sees a fat person it makes them uncomfortable for whatever reason so they lash out at that fat person in whatever way is socially acceptable.

I wasn't asking you all to stop wearing perfume, but to be aware of the affect it can have on people with allergies and asthma. We all want to look good in our OOTD so that it not only pleases ourselves, but the rest of our environment aka other people, who can then see that fat people can be beautiful too. If our perfume gets a negative reaction, like a pare of ill-fitting black sweats, no make-up, and unwashed hair etc. what is that overwhelming perfume saying about fat women in general?

Moderation in all things. And don't be surprised if there are a few people in your life who are affected by your chosen scent in a bad way, to the point that they avoid you or you make them sick. It's a fact of life. Just be aware of it like you are aware of your fashion. Wear what you like, clothes, make-up, hairstyles, and scent, but don't be surprised if some people think it's awful.

Sincerely,

Rose

(Reply to this)(Thread)

enchanted_black
2008-03-26 08:35 am (local) (link)

I think alot of us are aware of allergies. From what I gather on the BPAL communities I'm on, plenty of wearers have allergies themselves. In your original post, you pretty much ask people to stop wearing perfume for you. Your post should have been a comment in the other post about perfumes. I think a lot of the "lashing out" as you put it was because of the way you worded your post. The written word does not often carry with it the same effect as the spoken word. Also from what I gather from the comments to your post, there is a common belief that moderation is key.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	circumlocutory 2008-03-26 08:36 am (local) (link)
	Why is this relevant to a fashion list? Perfume is part of some, if not most people's fashion statement as shown by the "perfume?" post being accepted by the mods. Except, your post approved by mistake, so....yeah. No. If you're that sensitive to smell you probably shouldn't go outside. (Reply to this)(Parent)

definatalie
2008-03-26 08:40 am (local) (link)

Not all fat people have overwhelming perfume, nor do they muddy the tones of their chosen scents.

I have friends who have scent issues. It doesn't kill them, it just makes them uncomfortable. We have an understanding - they don't come within sniffing distance, and it doesn't bother me because we have that understanding.

This is an issue that needs to be worked out on a person to person basis, and I hardly feel like a blanket announcement needs to be made on behalf of all people.

At the end of the day, my scent makes me feel great and no one has keeled over in my presence yet unless they're overcome by my awesomeness.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

kukla_red
2008-03-26 08:46 am (local) (link)

Cheers to you!!

I for one am a little sick of some of the militantly nasty knee jerk response attitudes some people here seem to have. Don't we all face enough hostility out in the rest of the world? Do we have to get the same crap from people here in our own little community? I thought we were supposed to feel safe here and free to express and be ourselves.

How about people show a little tolerance for a change instead of that in your face "screw you if you don't like everything I do, say, wear or believe"?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	circumlocutory 2008-03-26 08:47 am (local) (link)
	Safe space on the internet is a myth. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kukla_red 2008-03-26 08:49 am (local) (link)
	Not if people cooperate. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	circumlocutory 2008-03-26 08:51 am (local) (link)
	....Like I said. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	definatalie 2008-03-26 08:54 am (local) (link)
	The mods of this community admit it is not a safe space. It will never be a safe space either on the terms that you suggest as long as people have differing opinions! I'm not inclined to want to live in a world where people have homogenous views either. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kukla_red 2008-03-26 08:57 am (local) (link)
	I never said everything has to be homogeneous. But it would be nice if people didn't feel so free to be rude whenever they felt like it simply because someone posted something they didn't 100% already agree with. You can disagree with someone without being a bitch. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	definatalie 2008-03-26 08:58 am (local) (link)
	That's a really blurry line there, because some people are sensitive to dissenting opinion even when it is phrased in a non threatening way! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	katie_ah 2008-03-26 09:10 am (local) (link)
	You seem to think that all disagreements are 'bitchy'. If you have a problem with people stating their opinions and being blunt, that's your problem, not theirs. The world does not cater to your needs and wants, sorry to say. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kukla_red
2008-03-26 09:20 am (local) (link)

There is a difference between being blunt and expressing one's opinion. I see that many people here seem to feel that they are free to be as nasty, bitchy, in your face and rude as they feel like and if anyone says anything about it, well, it's YOUR problem. This community does seem to be "safe" for that kind of awful attitude. What a shame.

I think there is a great deal lost when people cannot be civil and polite to each other, while still being able to express their differences.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

katie_ah
2008-03-26 09:26 am (local) (link)

I'm blunt.

Just like perfume, I'm not going to change that to tailor my interactions on the internet because some people can't deal with it. There is no 'safe' place on the internet or in the world at large, and if you can't deal with that, wow, sister, I do not know what to say to you.

I don't see anywhere in this post where people have not been polite or civil. Get over it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kukla_red 2008-03-26 09:32 am (local) (link)
	"Get over it." That's just the kind of thing I'm talking about. But I can see my time is wasted with you. Moving on now. (Reply to this)(Parent)

prettydark
2008-03-26 09:31 am (local) (link)

Some of us 'bitches' are women who stopped couching our language in anti-woman based 'padded' language we are taught girls need to use to be treated decently, full of apologies for having opinions and asking questions instead of making statements and owning one's own words. Asking everyone to 'be nicer' is incredibly subjective, some of us feel the 'nicest' thing we can do is be honest in a world full of falseness.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

	kukla_red 2008-03-26 09:37 am (local) (link)
	If you feel that being a bitch is the way to go through life, I hope you land softly when someone kicks you in the ass. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katie_ah 2008-03-26 09:40 am (local) (link)
	Wow, that's really nice that you're implying that people are bitches because of their word choice. No one else here has used such language to get their point across, but apparently for you to use it, apparently it's acceptable? Nice hypocrisy you have going there. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	abroadallmylife 2008-03-26 09:43 am (local) (link)
	High five. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	katie_ah 2008-03-26 09:44 am (local) (link)
	It reminds me waaaaaaay too much of when my mom would say 'do as I say, not as I do'. Now that I'm over you know, 8 years old, I gotta point it out when I see it. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	abroadallmylife 2008-03-26 09:42 am (local) (link)
	It seems to me that, with this comment, you are perpetuating the very impoliteness that you so dislike. Pretty over the top reply for a well-worded, thought out, non-bitchy comment. Then again, it's a very subjective topic. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	enchanted_black 2008-03-26 09:43 am (local) (link)
	Kukla_red, you apparently like judging people based on what they say. If you really want to be taken seriously come up with better responses to comments and stop reading between the lines. Prettydark, you hit the nail on the head with your comment. (Reply to this)(Parent)

prettydark
2008-03-26 09:44 am (local) (link)

Oh did I say that 'being a bitch is the way to go through life'? No I didn't. Please don't twist my words. And your 'hope' is an underhanded insult.

What I did say is that many women are labeled bitches, and often it is a tool of antifeminism to silence women. Women are expected to use language differently than men, and some of us refuse to do that. That people call us bitches because of it is often more telling about them than us.

Women who communicate like me usually say what they mean. They don't hide nasty sentiments behind 'nice' words like the statement you just replied to my comment with.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	onceupon 2008-03-26 09:53 am (local) (link)
	I think this pretty effectively undermines your desire for people in this community to be nicer to each other. If your response to someone calling you on using the word "bitch" is to wish them ill, well.... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	coco73 2008-03-26 11:33 am (local) (link)
	So women should be "nice" or they'll get their asses kicked? I wonder where I've heard those kinds of sentiments before...... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	beautyofgrey 2008-03-26 11:47 am (local) (link)
	To be fair, I think kukla_red intends that everyone, male, females, trans, queer, etc. be "nice" to one another. That said, I've lived the sentiment, and frankly, I'd rather be a bitch. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	coco73 2008-03-26 12:22 pm (local) (link)
	I guess I interpreted the term "bitch" as being referential of women....... And ouch - I'm really sorry. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	katie_ah 2008-03-26 09:37 am (local) (link)
	This comment rules. (Reply to this)(Parent)

feisty_jenn
2008-03-26 09:50 am (local) (link)

hmm...i'm all over womyn speaking their minds (and in fact am a big fan of the term "bitch" since when used pejoratively it appears to mean things i think are positive, like a womyn who is self-directed, independent etc).

i do wonder, however, if there isn't a difference between "making statements and owning one's own words" and seeking (explicitly or implicitly) to delegitimize someone else's words/statements. Surely it is possible to say "i like perfume" or even "i will continue to wear perfume" or "i am offended at being asked to change my behaviours to make you comfortable" without going all the way to "your concerns are ridiculous b/c scent allergies/sensitivities are not real". (i'm not saying you said this, i'm speaking of the thread as a whole)

my 2 cents

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

prettydark
2008-03-26 09:54 am (local) (link)

Well, I think there's a wide variety of responses here, and the majority of them were polite and well thought out, most of them were about whether the post even belonged anywhere other than the first post, since even that is almost out of the scope of the community.

In this post, there was not a huge anti-scent-sensitivity bash session the way the OP's replies to comments make it seem. That makes her seem like an overreactive person, and from long time experience there's just no talking once people are all OMG YALL OPPRESS ME! when there's been a wide range of individually owned responses.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	lauramars 2008-03-26 10:09 am (local) (link)
	WORD! You put that quite eloquently. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	beautyofgrey 2008-03-26 10:21 am (local) (link)
	Thank you so, so much for this comment. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	thatbitchfiona 2008-03-26 12:16 pm (local) (link)
	calling someone a bitch isn't very polite... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	madeyou_look 2008-03-26 10:52 am (local) (link)
	Have you read vaginapagina? Safe space is just stupid. Literally, if someone says "I'm going to use a hot curling iron as a dildo, y/n?" you'd be "disempowering" her if you told her that was a stupid idea. Being mindful of the feelings and perspectives of others is one thing. Safe space is quite another. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	poli_gone 2008-03-26 09:00 am (local) (link)
	that's true, and it's doubly true for this community. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 09:06 am (local) (link)
	Thank you so very much for saying this. I thought I was the only one here who felt this way. I couldn't have said it better (and I didn't, though I tried.) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ohblackdahlia 2008-03-26 09:09 am (local) (link)
	I think the connection is more tenuous that a bridge built out of snowflakes and unicorn wishes. Sincerely, OBD (Reply to this)(Parent)

3xcharmed
2008-03-26 08:35 am (local) (link)

Ok..I realize that that this post isn't appropriate to a fashion community, but as long as the issue has been raised, I feel I need to address it.

I am an occupational therapist. I specialize in sensory integration disorders. I will tell you, without a doubt, that we do not all see, feel, smell, taste, hear, or feel movement in the same way. Some people with sensory integration dysfunction have a very low threshhold to sensory stimuli, which makes living in our world very painful for them.
And no, not everybody has to "be allergic" to something specifically in the scent; their system can simple be overwhelmed.

I don't understand the entitlement that some of you feel about wearing perfume. I compare it to second-hand smoke. Your behavior is affecting other negatively. Would it be so difficult to empathize? Acknowledge their sensitivity and tone it down some? Just be aware of where you will be going and how you may affect others. Heck, I like to wear perfume and I do, but I consider who may be around me when I do. I don't wear it to work, and I don't bathe in it.

It's ironic that many people in a community that is about advocating for their rights is so adamant about ignoring other people's rights.

Flame away.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	circumlocutory 2008-03-26 08:37 am (local) (link)
	Is this a fucking joke post or something? Because some of the commenters must be on crack. Comparing perfume to secondhand smoke is pretty damn stupid, since the latter can, you know, kill you. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

onceupon
2008-03-26 09:48 am (local) (link)

Actually, while I'm not sure asking people at large to never wear perfumes is a reasonable request, perfume CAN kill some people with severe allergic reactions to scent. And it can make life immediately unpleasant for people with non-life threatening responses.

I think it's a good thing to know that some people are allergic to scents - my best friend has migraines triggered by scent so I don't wear perfumes around her.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	wifeofset 2008-03-26 11:01 am (local) (link)
	When it can be definitively proven that my amber/white musk oil has caused cancer in any person who has stood near me while wearing it...then and ONLY then will I concede to stopping its use. Or my Whore of Babylon...or... (Reply to this)(Parent)

definatalie
2008-03-26 08:45 am (local) (link)

If you work around people with sensory issues, of course you'd nix the scents in that situation. I think most of us are horrified that we are practically being told that we're supposed to go without just on the off chance we kill someone with our perfume. Hyperbole! Panic Stations! Death! What!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most reasonable people will negotiate an agreement if they are in a situation where they are triggered/ triggering.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

3xcharmed
2008-03-26 09:52 am (local) (link)

Hmmmm. I did't state that wearing perfume will kill someone; although maybe my comment can be construed that way since I compared the two. However, I do think it's reasonable to state that both second-hand smoke and heavy perfume can both be harmful to another person, regardless of the severity. I will not debate this point any further, since it serves only to distract from the issue.

"Most reasonable people will negotiate an agreement if they are in a situation where they are triggered/ triggering."

I would hope, but some of the negative comments on this board leave me less than optimistic.

I'm not willing to engage in inflammatory arguments. I really was hoping that I could help people understand and empathize, that's all.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	definatalie 2008-03-26 09:54 am (local) (link)
	I didn't call you out on the cigarette smoke/ perfume scent comparison at all and I certainly don't feel as if I am being inflammatory in any of my comments. (Reply to this)(Parent)

heysmilepretty
2008-03-26 11:27 am (local) (link)

I think that

definatalie's point was that it's not unreasonable, when you will be triggered/triggering someone else, to negotiate an agreement. It IS, however, unreasonable to expect a random woman on the street/on your bus/in the office/wherever to not wear perfume because it upsets your delicate sensitivities. It's just as easy walk away from someone you have no affiliation with if her fragrance is bothering you, as it is to come up with an agreement with a friend ahead of time. Whether you walk away from strangers or talk to your girlfriend about not wearing heavy scents around you, the key is avoidance, which when it comes down to it, is up to the person who is triggered by scents. You can't expect the entire world to bend to your needs.

Also, regarding the second-hand smoke vs. perfume thing? COME ON. NOBODY wears perfume that heavy. As the OP would say, JEEBUS.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 08:56 am (local) (link)
	Just simply.........thank you from the bottom of my heart for saying what I wanted to say, but doing it so much better than I could have. Sincerely, Rose (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	3xcharmed 2008-03-26 09:52 am (local) (link)
	you're welcome. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ohblackdahlia 2008-03-26 09:12 am (local) (link)
	I'm allergic to peanuts. Please to be shutting down all Thai restaurants. Oh, and JIF. I am also allergic to shellfish, dairy, wheat, and myriad other foodstuffs, and I am affected by this every day. Should my allergies affect the rest of the world, too? Where do we draw the line? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	3xcharmed 2008-03-26 09:55 am (local) (link)
	Hmmm, didn't say or imply this. Personal responsibility is definitely a factor. Many of my food allergen clients avoid restaurants all together because of their sensitivities. However, it is difficult to avoid everyone in the world who wears perfume, wouldn't you say? Gosh, just be considerate. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	aurorastar420 2008-03-26 11:39 am (local) (link)
	wow, that's a really silly comparison. you get to CHOOSE what you ingest. those of us with strong-scent-triggered migraines don't get to CHOOSE who we're stuck in an elevator with. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ohblackdahlia 2008-03-26 01:50 pm (local) (link)
	I know! It was purposefully silly (see comments elsewhere) to reflect other instances of hyperbole. I know it is tough to deal with scent-related sensitivities-- I have them. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	elegyforanangel 2008-03-26 01:11 pm (local) (link)
	heeeeeeellll no. take away my perfume, but DAMN don't take away my peanut butter. :P (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	ohblackdahlia 2008-03-26 01:47 pm (local) (link)
	You get my point. Hyperbole! (Reply to this)(Parent)

damsel_ophelia
2008-03-26 09:20 am (local) (link)

You know, it's funny - I'm reading this post and I'm thinking about my five year old who can never bring peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to school...at all...because one of the kids in her class has a severe peanut allergy. I often wonder what's going to happen to these kids when they hit the workforce in 12 or so years. I guess I've found out. What kind of a person would I be if I said "Screw it - if this kid has an allergy that bad he should be homeschooled - my kid will have all the peanut butter she wants!" Some of the responses in this post have said pretty much that.

You know what? People with MCS (multiple chemical sensitivities)do stay home, and their lives are very, very limited in what they can do and where they can go. MCS (and a lot of the associated health issues) makes it pretty damn near impossible to hold down a job outside the home, use public transportation, visit friends, or even go pick up a prescription at the drugstore without making themselves extremely sick. MCS and chemical injuries and sensitivities are very real. I'm not saying that everyone who asks you to tone down the scents is going to get horribly sick if you don't - but please do realize that this is possible.

I know I'm going to get flamed, or taken for some kind of jerk...but I felt I would be remiss if I didn't say something.

To the OP - can I have your permission to quote the text of this entry?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	3xcharmed 2008-03-26 09:56 am (local) (link)
	Mine? Feel free. (Reply to this)(Parent)

vanee
2008-03-26 09:29 am (local) (link)

Comparing PERFUME to second-hand smoke, is quite frankly, one of the most stupid things I have ever heard.

And yes, I wear perfume whenever the heck I want to wear it. Honestly, I could care less if someone is sensitive/allergic to scents - I am allergic to a couple of things as well and I don't expect the rest of the world to take that into consideration. It's my problem so I deal with it. Also? It's not like I rub myself on people that are allergic to scent and force them to smell my awesome perfume; and as for strangers that pass me? I don't bathe myself in my perfume, I use a couple of spritzes and that's it, so I sincerely doubt that anyone who passes me on the street is going to have a deathly allergic reaction.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	3xcharmed 2008-03-26 09:58 am (local) (link)
	"I don't bathe myself in my perfume, I use a couple of spritzes and that's it, ..." That's my whole point. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	ohblackdahlia 2008-03-26 09:30 am (local) (link)
	Oh, and just so you know -- I absolutely understand that people are sensitive to smells -- my issue isn't with basic human decency, it's with wackadoo hyperbole (i.e., "you smell will kill me :O)"). (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 09:36 am (local) (link)
	The smiley face was supposed to indicate I was being freaking facetious. Whoopsie (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	prettydark 2008-03-26 10:05 am (local) (link)
	On the internet, it is simply best to leave sarcasm and facetiousness on the wayside and on the snark communities. Emoticons are not a foolproof way to signal sarcasm, or to shield yourself from reactions. Edited at 2008-03-26 10:05 am (local) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 12:35 pm (local) (link)
	Found that one out the hard way. I guess I've been on one or two communities so long, and we know each other so well, that I forgot not everyone can understand my shorthand. :-/ Live and learn. :-( Rose (Reply to this)(Parent)

I am one of the no scent people

redpoppies
2008-03-26 08:36 am (local) (link)

I have asthma. Really flowery strong smells get to me. My eyes water up, I have a hard time breathing, and I sneeze for hours. If I was not taking asthma medication, I could have an attack and I could die. It is rare but it can happen. I try to avoid perfumed people, but often in a work environment it is hard. Out on the town, go nuts spray yourself to high heaven, at work try to tone it down. How about trying to be sympathetic to those that suffer allergies.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: I am one of the no scent people

enchanted_black
2008-03-26 08:41 am (local) (link)

I have asthma also and wear perfume. Most asthma sufferers have specific allergens that trigger asthma attacks. Mine being pollen, formaldehyde, grass, dust, ragweed, and overly strong perfumes. If it's sympathy you're looking for then it's not going to happen. Why not? Because I never got sympathy when I would have an asthma attack in school after running in the freezing cold and my chest was seizing up.

And it seems that a lot of the allergy sufferers who are asking perfumed people to tone it down don't seem to realize that some of us don't wear a whole lot to begin with. I know I don't because if I did I'd be a watery eyed mess.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people kukla_red 2008-03-26 08:48 am (local) (link)
	So because you didn't get sympathy when you were a kid you have none for anyone now? That's nasty. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: I am one of the no scent people

enchanted_black
2008-03-26 08:50 am (local) (link)

Read the comment more thoroughly please and not between the lines.

I do have sympathy for people but asking others to can come off as a bit of a pity-party. Should I have sympathy for everyone? Yes and no. Not every issue deems a person to be sympathetic.

And calling me nasty? You don't know me well enough to make that judgment call.

Edited at 2008-03-26 08:50 am (local)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people acerzen 2008-03-26 12:08 pm (local) (link)
	I read it the same way. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: I am one of the no scent people

redpoppies
2008-03-26 09:05 am (local) (link)

I am sorry about your past. I too have a past, I had an asthma attack as a small child and they took me to the hospital, I got shots, and felt very ill. I throw up and felt weak, but I lived. My title(I am one of the no scent people is true, I don't wear perfume.) I did not ask others not to wear it, but to tone it down at work. A lot of offices that I have worked you can't open widows or leave you post for too long.

Plus I am also allergic to ragweed, mold, animals, and dust. Any factor that I can lessen the better.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people enchanted_black 2008-03-26 09:25 am (local) (link)
	It's okay. I've learned to live with it. I had to go to the hospital a number of times due to asthma attacks. And I read your comment, dear. I wasn't lashing out at you and sorry it seemed that way. Asking people to tone it down isn't a bad thing because there are times you want some people who are overly perfumed to just bring it down a notch. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people redpoppies 2008-03-26 11:03 am (local) (link)
	Thank you for clearing that up. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: I am one of the no scent people

rosewelsh
2008-03-26 09:02 am (local) (link)

I cannot believe how we are being treated here! This is supposed to be a place of acceptance. Hell, I boobooed my first post and included something I shouldn't have and went back and reread all the rules. On that same page it emphasizes acceptance of all sorts of people but even the mods are being cruel. I don't know about you, but I'm seriously thinking about leaving. This is just ridiculous. If we'd gotten this kind of reaction to someone who was openly gay here it would have been a scandal.

Sincerely,

Rose

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people enchanted_black 2008-03-26 09:28 am (local) (link)
	I cannot believe how we are being treated here! This is supposed to be a place of acceptance. This isn't a safety zone. Someone else has already stated that. There are no safety zones on the internet, there never has been. Edited at 2008-03-26 09:28 am (local) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people rosewelsh 2008-03-26 09:39 am (local) (link)
	Just because it can't be guaranteed to be a "safe zone" doesn't mean I can't be absolutely flabbergasted and say so. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people enchanted_black 2008-03-26 09:54 am (local) (link)
	I'm not telling you you can't voice your opinion. You have a right to say what you want to say. I don't recall saying you couldn't. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: I am one of the no scent people

redpoppies
2008-03-26 09:30 am (local) (link)

Truthfully, it is kind of sad. This community can get pretty petty over some weird stuff. I got attacked before over agreeing with a poster that an article from the Onion was not funny. It was about how Fat People were less suicidal according to polls so fat people need help to kill themselves off. The poster was being attack for not having a sense of humor or for not get satire.

I thought about leave then too. It is ridiculous on a lot of levels.
I just wanted you to know you are not alone.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people rosewelsh 2008-03-26 09:41 am (local) (link)
	Thank you very very very very very very much :-) And if I could I'd reword the "flabbergasted" comment after reading this. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: help! help! I'm being oppressed! meetzemonsta 2008-03-26 09:31 am (local) (link)
	Please show me where anyone has been overtly CRUEL to you. Also, P.S. Openly gay /= chemical sensitivities. Attempting to compare the two is ridiculous. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: help! help! I'm being oppressed! enchanted_black 2008-03-26 09:35 am (local) (link)
	Glad it wasn't just me who felt the same also. No one has been overtly cruel to the OP and yet it's a "bash-fest". Most of the comments on this thread have been articulate and lacking in "bashing". I guess because I'm not a sympathetic fellow allergy sufferer I'm being cruel and nasty. >_ (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people prettydark 2008-03-26 09:36 am (local) (link)
	The mods have not been cruel to you. It sounds like you want a much different sort of community. (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: I am one of the no scent people

caereala
2008-03-26 09:53 am (local) (link)

Hell, I boobooed my first post and included something I shouldn't have and went back and reread all the rules. On that same page it emphasizes acceptance of all sorts of people but even the mods are being cruel.

From the community info: fatshionista is, ideally, meant to be challenging: socially, politically, and intellectually. Difficult, enlightening conversations are encouraged.

How does that give you the impression you are going to have you hand held and everyone is going to agree with you? If you have done any bit of reading here, you should realize that it is not all rainbows, ponies, and puppy dog kisses. There is frequently disagreement. I really fail to see where people have been cruel. I see opinions and points of view that are different than yours.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people wifeofset 2008-03-26 11:07 am (local) (link)
	No, this is supposed to be a community about fat fashion. Fatshionism is elsewhere. Fatshionista = pictures of fashionable fatty outfits we can all be thrilled to try. Perfume will kill me posts = somewhere else (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Stop the Insanity

redpoppies
2008-03-26 11:47 am (local) (link)

Many people before you made this same statement and some opinions were given why it should stay. They even explained how it was over looked by the mod, accidentally. Yet it is here.

I was just trying to support rosewelsh who was under attack. Were the comments cruel... no. petty... yes. over whelming ..definitely.

People can disagree politely and with reason. That is all I look for and all I want. Thank you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	Re: I am one of the no scent people liveavatar 2008-03-26 01:17 pm (local) (link)
	Actually, since perfume is marketed so heavily as a fashion accessory, I'm completely happy with this post being here. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	vfc 2008-03-26 09:13 am (local) (link)
	Since we're talking about things outside of our control that have very little to do with fashion, here just a few spelling and grammar tips for future reference: endure couldn't care less affect = verb effect = noun (Reply to this)(Thread)

rosewelsh
2008-03-26 09:19 am (local) (link)

Hey... to completely veer off-topic did it ever occur to you that a few of us who have a hard time with spelling and grammar might actually have a learning disability? Jeebus! As much as I love the warm fuzzies I get from other people's OOTD I'm just really thinking about leaving this community all together. I've only ever seen this kind of bash-fest with complete mod participation in a Celtic Reconstructionist forum.

R

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

vfc
2008-03-26 09:24 am (local) (link)

Hey, even I forgot a verb in my comment. It happens. I tried to edit it, but you commented so quickly that I couldn't. If you don't want to court drama, maybe take a breath or two before getting so up in arms about anyone who doesn't agree with you or tell you exactly what you want to hear. You're sensitive to scents. I'm sensitive to improper word usage. Can't we all just get along?

Edited at 2008-03-26 09:43 am (local)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	abroadallmylife 2008-03-26 09:37 am (local) (link)
	Celtic Reconstructionist? (Reply to this)(Parent)

	wifeofset 2008-03-26 11:08 am (local) (link)
	Oh dear jesus,why is it everyone on the internet who can't spell has a learning disability? WHY?! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	heysmilepretty 2008-03-26 11:29 am (local) (link)
	Because they can. Stop oppressing their learning disability experience. JEEBUS. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	wifeofset 2008-03-26 11:33 am (local) (link)
	OH I'M SORRY! Perhaps I should start oppressing their obvious disability that is manifesting in their lack of a spine (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	heysmilepretty 2008-03-26 11:36 am (local) (link)
	At least that disability is apparent, and not more than likely made up. ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	spessartine 2008-03-26 10:06 am (local) (link)
	couldn't care less THANK YOU. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	bagfish 2008-03-26 10:57 am (local) (link)
	Seconded. Could care less means something completely different and makes a nonsense of whatever is being said when it is used in place of couldn't care less. (Reply to this)(Parent)

gravehearted
2008-03-26 09:29 am (local) (link)

I work at a pretty liberal college campus and can tell you Multiple Chemical Sensitivity is a very real thing, and can be set off by scented products. It's a terrible thing to watch someone turn ashen and be ill for several days just due to someone else's fragrance, smoke or even a garment from the dry cleaner.

Also - people with multiple chemical sensitivity are now covered under the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), which is good.

When hosting events - we're encouraged to include the following text:

"Out of respect for people with Multiple Chemical Sensitivities, please refrain from using scented products when attending this event."

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 09:34 am (local) (link)
	Bless you :-) Thank you! :-) You don't know how relieved and happy I was to read this post. Thank you! Rose (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	damsel_ophelia 2008-03-26 11:29 am (local) (link)
	Seconded! (Reply to this)(Parent)

definatalie
2008-03-26 10:07 am (local) (link)

The wikipedia article you've linked to doesn't exist, however this entry has a hefty chunk of text dedicated to questions about the validity and existance of the condition.

The cause and existence of MCS are disputed. In particular, doctors disagree about whether symptoms are physiologically or psychologically generated or both. United States courts and several medical organizations reject MCS as a physiological disease. Critics of clinical ecology, a controversial field of medicine that claims to treat MCS, charge that:

1. MCS has never been clearly defined,
2. no scientifically plausible mechanism has been proposed for it,
3. no diagnostic tests have been substantiated,[4] and
4. not a single case has been scientifically validated.[5]

Of course, it's wikipedia and really, shouldn't be used as a reference if one wants to provide concrete evidence... and specifically supporting evidence.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	tricotaine 2008-03-26 10:09 am (local) (link)
	So for those events days people should invest in no scent soap, no scent shampoo, no perfume of course, no scent deodorant and no scent wash soap? oh and go forbid I would wear my dressier clothes that have been cleaned at the dry cleaner. That seems quite excessive. (Reply to this)(Parent)

rosewelsh
2008-03-26 09:32 am (local) (link)

Please everyone - re-read my freaking post!

*I - Was - Not - Demanding - Anything*

It was an awareness post, nothing else. JEEBUS! Stop letting your guilty conscious read the post! Read it without feeling defensive. Read the thing for what it was. And next time something affects you like this on line, get a grip before responding. If you'd all responded this way to someone who was "demanding" that you accept that homosexuality is normal (when you don't think it is) just because they bring it up in a fashion post, you'd have been censored quickly and with relish. Scent sensitivities are no different that anything else that makes us different from each other.

If you make note of the emoticonish thingies, it should tone the whole message down.

I'm going away for a day. If I still feel the way I do now, after I've calmed down and have my rational head back, I will leave this community.

Rose

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	poli_gone 2008-03-26 09:44 am (local) (link)
	instead of flouncing, why don't you edit your original post for clarity? it seems like you have just as many supporters as you do dissenters. i don't see why you feel you have to leave just because some people disagree with you. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	vanee 2008-03-26 09:48 am (local) (link)
	why do you feel the need to compare a post about HOMOSEXUALITY to a post that basically asks people to stop wearing perfume in public because it might affect others? i fail to see even the slightest connection between these two issues. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	punkalicia 2008-03-26 10:11 am (local) (link)
	iawtc. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	beautyofgrey 2008-03-26 10:26 am (local) (link)
	Clearly, scent-sensitivity is the last acceptable form of social prejudice. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	new_bird 2008-03-26 10:32 am (local) (link)
	hahahahahahahahah (Reply to this)(Parent)

	prettydark 2008-03-26 10:56 am (local) (link)
	My stroke from laughing; you caused it! (Reply to this)(Parent)

	poli_gone 2008-03-26 11:23 am (local) (link)
	<333 (Reply to this)(Parent)

	imle 2008-03-26 01:39 pm (local) (link)
	Man, you've just made my day. (Reply to this)(Parent)

enchanted_black
2008-03-26 09:51 am (local) (link)

Re-read the comments to your post. Honestly. You've pretty much high-fived everyone who agreed with you but anyone who didn't agree with you and told you in terms that weren't pleasant sounding to your own ears you've ignored.

A lot of the comments don't come across as guilt-driven, but I don't know the posters of those comments personally. For you to assume that is a bit silly.

And if anything for some people the emoticons may come across as sarcastic.

I read this for what it was; an awareness post. But as I said in a previous comment it was how it was worded. Of course, I'm not going to ask you to re-phrase your post. That would be rude of me and you have a right to voice your opinions as do the other posters on this community. Everyone has different opinions and are going to voice them in anyway they feel they can. If you cannot handle that then maybe this community is not for you. Everyone on here feels differently about something and it's obvious no one is shy about saying what they feel. If you want sugar-coated comments then this isn't the place.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	circumlocutory 2008-03-26 10:01 am (local) (link)
	You are a little too weepy to be on the internet, dear. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	prettydark 2008-03-26 10:08 am (local) (link)
	HAHAHA oh fuck I just saw your icon for the first time! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	circumlocutory 2008-03-26 10:11 am (local) (link)
	It is my new favorite! (Reply to this)(Parent)

icegemini
2008-03-26 10:08 am (local) (link)

It's been indicated by the mods that your post was not meant to be approved, and by equating the disagreeing commenters with people who don't believe in homosexuality is rather melodramatic, no?

Leaving a community over what appears to be a fairly trivial post - no one has been outright rude or hostile to you - is probably just cutting your nose off to spite your face, as I'm sure fatshionista has plenty to offer you.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

shayna_madela
2008-03-26 10:08 am (local) (link)

i'm just reading this post now. i'm not guilty of anything. here's the way it is.

if you were my co-worker and informed me that you have a chemical sensitivity, i would stop wearing perfume out of courtesy of you. if you were my coworker and you had a chemical sensitivity and didn't tell me, i 'm not going to stop wearing perfume because i don't know that you have this issue. if you are a random person on a train and you have chemical sensitivity and you sit next to me and you have a problem, then you should move. i am not psychic and i cannot know if you have a problem without you telling me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	new_bird 2008-03-26 10:12 am (local) (link)
	word (Reply to this)(Parent)

	tricotaine 2008-03-26 10:14 am (local) (link)
	ah the flounce post. Internet wins again (Reply to this)(Parent)

marieb
2008-03-26 10:15 am (local) (link)

Heee! Poor you. What a firestorm you've created! For what it's worth I can sympathize. I do wear perfume and love things with pretty scents but as an allergy sufferer, I have also been subjected to the pain of being in an enclosed space with someone who doesn't realize that too much of a good thing CAN indeed be bad. I think one of the problems is that people tend to lose sensitivity to scents they wear often and hence end up thinking that if they can't smell it, then they need to add more, an unfortunate but common enough occurrence.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

aurorastar420
2008-03-26 11:45 am (local) (link)

people tend to lose sensitivity to scents they wear often and hence end up thinking that if they can't smell it, then they need to add more, an unfortunate but common enough occurrence.

i swear i'm gonna print this up on a business card and start handing it to every old lady at the grocery store that soaked in a tub of jean nate before leaving the house... *grin*

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 12:12 pm (local) (link)
	Hallaluja! You wear a scent long enough... (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

aurorastar420
2008-03-26 01:19 pm (local) (link)

right!!! and just, for the record, if i hadn't been afk all day yesterday (new tattoo!!!) i would've been duking it out along with you. i get migraines from really strong odors, and besides, it's just rude and presumptous to announce yourself to a half-mile square radius with a scent. i mean, get the hell over yourself! i love perfume as much as the next lady (*guffaws at calling self lady*), but i know that if i use a dab or two, or one squirt, i'm not gonna set myself off--or anyone else for that matter. what the hell happened to the art of subtlety? oh yeah, this is 2008 in america. *gag*

/end rant

*hugs*

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	marieb 2008-03-26 01:40 pm (local) (link)
	LOL Especially Jean Nate! (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	aurorastar420 2008-03-26 01:48 pm (local) (link)
	ah yes...the classic scent of rubbing alcohol, goat piss, and burned sugar just never gets old! LOL (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 12:10 pm (local) (link)
	{{{{{{Marieb}}}}}} Thank you :-) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	marieb 2008-03-26 01:41 pm (local) (link)
	Heh. You're welcome. (Reply to this)(Parent)

chavvah
2008-03-26 10:55 am (local) (link)

I do agree that this post would have been better as a comment to the original perfume post, but now that it's here:

I am someone who lives with a variety of chemical sensitivities, and you're right, not everyone understands how serious they can be. I have had times when I have had to get off a bus or leave a meeting or a movie theatre because someone was wearing a scent that was making me sick. I also once passed out, in a situation where I was working alone, due to the presence of a chemical to which I was sensitive.

You seem like a nice person. Sorry the comments on this post got so out of hand.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 12:37 pm (local) (link)
	I thought about putting it in that thread, but I really thought it was something that deserved it's own post so that it didn't get lost in the shuffle. wrong-me You are very sweet. Thanks for your nice comments :-) happy me (Reply to this)(Parent)

goodbadgirl
2008-03-26 11:37 am (local) (link)

Actually, there was a small thread on the other post and it received a high number of "not my problem"/"you are whiny" comments as well.

Sorry you're taking the heat for this. In my experience this community has long lost it's radical ability to think outside the box and question things besides whether a skirt looks good on someone. Anytime anyone creates a post asking for sympathy, understanding, consideration, thoughtfulness about anything other than their fatness it's a call for ridicule and blow offs.

I find it ironically sad that the same folks who call for the airline industry to re-size their seats so they may have a more comfortable ride wouldn't think twice about pouring on their migraine-inducing perfume and creating a horrible flight for someone else.

I think, overall, since this community has grown so much it quite accurately reflect society at large. There are a good number of caring, thoughtful, political and empathic people who read and comment to this group, and there are a good number of folks who don't care about anything other than their own struggles and rights. Apparently, everyone else is being a baby for speaking up for themselves while they are empowered and empowering for doing the same thing.*

It's maddening.

I appreciate the post though...as someone who has been made sick countless times by other's folks perfumes I really appreciate it.

*Said empowerment is restricted to white, middle/upper class able-bodied people only, apparently. The rest of us are asking for too much.

(Reply to this)

acerzen
2008-03-26 11:39 am (local) (link)

Thanks for posting this separately. I find this totally appropriate. I try to not use scented anything or only organic naturally scented stuff...but it is tough as you probably know. I personally prefer my own smell over chemicals any day. But I do like the occasional essential oil and I am judicious about using it.

Honestly, I think many people don't even believe that some people have horrific responses to scents. They really believe 'those people' are over reacting.

(Reply to this)

oneforellis
2008-03-26 12:02 pm (local) (link)

Did you tag this entry as drama yourself?

Anyway, I imagine some people are not upset because of relevance, but because this sounds like we're all too dumb or flighty to know that scents mix? Like, I don't know who needs to be told their hair spray and shampoo smells mix with their perfume? It feels to me like reminding an adult to look both ways before crossing the street.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 12:25 pm (local) (link)
	I've been in a crowded Vegas bus on a hot day, and yes... there are a lot of people who don't even think about this sort of thing. I think a lot of the problem with overwhelming scents comes from combining too many together. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 12:26 pm (local) (link)
	Oh, as for the drama tag... that must have been a moderator because I completely forgot to tag it. R (Reply to this)(Parent)

liveavatar
2008-03-26 12:30 pm (local) (link)

Thanks for posting this! This seems like an appropriate post to me, especially since perfume is marketed so heavily as a fashion accessory. I'm scent-sensitive myself, though not as sensitive as several other people I know. It's not so much the perfume that's the problem in many cases, but the solvents and other chemicals used to fix and preserve the scent (which is why pure perfume oils often aren't as much of a problem).

I'm involved in social dance groups that have had to institute fragrance-free policies because it was such a big problem -- we even provide fragrance-free soaps for weekend-long and week-long dance events. Here's a link to one dance camp's policies, and to the more explanatory and more minatory policy at another camp. One person is liable to literally pass out on the dance floor if she's hit with too much perfume or fabric conditioner scent.

Having read through the comments (not so much the comment threads yet), I agree that there's a lot of pushback from people who either don't realize how much scents can affect someone, or who are so attached to their favorite scents that they'll even sacrifice relationships. I'm on a dance team where I cannot ride in a car with one of my team members, because I too nearly pass out, since she refuses to stop wearing her heavily artificially scented lotion around me. She even reapplies it near me despite my requests to stop. Now I just keep my distance from her at all times.

Scent is a powerful thing! If only it would only use its powers for good. :)

Edited at 2008-03-26 12:32 pm (local)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	rosewelsh 2008-03-26 12:43 pm (local) (link)
	Thank you for your kind response. I guess I worded it all wrong or something for so many people to have gotten so weirded out about it. Damn, I haven't done that it a loooong time. R (Reply to this)(Parent)

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